--------------------
Message-ID: <02b901c519c5$27610a90$060611ac@corp.frontier.co.uk>
From: "David Braben"
To: "Ian Bell"
Cc: "Guy Herbert" ,"David Walsh"
Subject: Pirated Copies of Elite
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:31:40 -0000


Ian,

I notice you have reinstated the archive of various hacked/pirated copies of
Elite on to your site at
http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/archive/index.htm

As you know, I have always wanted to make the original Elite binaries
available via shareware or via the Elite Club, which would require
permission of all the copyright holders. Neither of us has this. From your
site, you seem to take this wish (that I have stated both privately and
publically) as permission for you to unilaterally make such copyright
material freely available, license free, and with no copyright message. You
have no such permission, and what is being done with this site is a serious
breach of my copyright.

Please remove these files immediately. If you are prepared to grant
permission for me to do the same*, I will give permission for you to
reinstate the binary and data files under a shareware license (ie NOT
sources). Until that point the files must remain off line.

David

*Which includes getting permission from Chris Jordan, if needed, who claimed
to me he had bought your residual rights in Elite.





--------------------
Message-ID: <422C46DD.2010107@clara.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 12:19:41 +0000
From: Ian Bell
To: David Braben
Subject: Re: Pirated Copies of Elite
In-Reply-To: <02b901c519c5$27610a90$060611ac@corp.frontier.co.uk>


David

 Can you please specify precisely which files linked to from
http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/archive/index.htm
you claim copyright for and wish removed?

ian b - www.ibell.co.uk

"This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector."     ---    Plato




--------------------
Message-ID: <005101c524e6$896ac100$a5fc3c40@corp.frontier.co.uk>
From: "David Braben"
To: "Ian Bell"
Cc: "David Walsh" ,"Guy Herbert" ,"David Braben"
Subject: Re: Pirated Copies of Elite
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:28:19 -0000


Ian

The best way to proceed would be for us to issue a reciprocal shareware
agreement, as discussed. It is your choice. In the meantime please remove
all files that include my Elite copyright material; the game, its sources,
design elements and data. If you are not prepared to go down the shareware
route, then you may not use my (C) material unilaterally and you must remove
it forthwith, and only restore these elements once a future agreement is in
place.

David

Pompous irrelevant Plato quote:

Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form
of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.



Message-ID: <423E8779.5020306@clara.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:36:09 +0000
From: Ian Bell
Reply-To:  iancgbell@clara.co.uk
To: David Braben
Subject: Re: Pirated Copies of Elite
In-Reply-To: <005101c524e6$896ac100$a5fc3c40@corp.frontier.co.uk>


David

 http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/archive/index.htm links to the files listed below.

 Please specify which files you are claiming copyright in and wish removed.

pkunzip.exe   Expands ZIP files. Ver 2.04g. DOS.
a4080602.zip   BBC Model B Cassette Elite Sources (disk image)
a4080610.zip   BBC Model B Cassette Elite Sources (text files)
a4090000.zip   Electron Cassette Elite (Acn) (UEF cassette image)
a4090010.zip   Electron Cassette Elite (Sup) (UEF cassette image)
a4100000.zip   BBC Model B Disk Elite (disk image)
a4100001.zip   BBC Model B Disk Elite (files)
a4100070.zip   BBC Elite Manual (GIF scans)
a4100082.zip   Elite ship sources (Bell) (disk image)
a4100010.gif   Elite logo
a4110020.htm   Beebug review
a4120000.htm   Acorn News report
a4120010.htm   Acorn World report
a5022201.zip   BBC 2nd Pro Elite Sources (disk image)
a5050000.zip   Emulable C64 Elite
a5050001.zip   Emulable C64 Elite (plus cheats)
a5050002.zip   Emulable C64 Elite (inc load screen and German version)
a5050003.zip   64 Elite (for use on real C64s)
a5050070.txt   C64 Elite manual (plain text)
a5050080.zip   C64 Elite manual (illus) (MS Word)
a5100000.zip   Emulable 48K Spectrum Elite
a5100010.zip   Emulable 128K Spectrum Elite
a5100020.zip   Emulable Russian varient Spectrum Elites
a4100002.zip   Elite:The Dark Wheel (Novella)
a6010000.zip   Emulable Amstrad CPC Elite
a6010010.zip   Emulable Apple II Elite
a7000003.zip   BBC Model B Disk Elite A (disk image)
a7000002.zip   BBC Model B Disk Elite A (files)
a7100000.zip   PC Elite (cracked)
a8010002.zip   Emulable MSX Elite
a8070010.zip   Emulable Atari ST Elite (cracked)
a8070040.zip   Atari cheat notes
a8100000.zip   Emulable Amiga Elite (cracked)
b1022000.zip   PC Elite Plus (+passwords)
b1022001.zip   PC Elite Plus (cracked)
b1022010.zip   Imprint (Novella)
b4000000.zip   Emulable Commodor Plus/4 Elites
b4020010.zip   Emulable Genesis Elite demo
b4040900.zip   Emulable GameBoy Elite demo
b5052400.arc   Archimedes Elite (!Spark archive)
b5052410.arc   Archimedes Elite (Patched) (!Spark archive)
b5052420.zip   Emulable Archimedes Elite (ADF image)
b5052480.zip   Archimedes Elite ship sources
b5081501.htm   Bell Games Domain interview
b5090800.txt     Braben v EMAP Writ
b5121600.txt   Braben & Bell Agreement RE Libel
b5121601.txt   Braben & Bell Public Statement RE Libel
b5121800.txt   Bell Press Release RE Libel
b6061100.txt   GameTek v Braben Writ
b7010302.txt   Braben v EMAP payment ruling
b7120500.zip   Emulable NES Elite
b7051600.zip   Elite ship geometries
b80000C0.zip   Bell BBC Elite 2 ship sources (disk image)
b8020001.zip   BBC/M128/2P("Executive") Elites (disk image)
b8021000.zip   Emulable C128 Elite B
b8060000.mp3   Elite theme (A.Bell arr.#1 C.Abbott)
b8060010.mp3   Elite theme (A.Bell arr.#2 C.Abbott)
b9101100.htm   Braben Elite FAQ as webposted 11/10/99
b9101314.zip   Text Elite 1.4
c0031900.zip   Elite ships in VRML (J.Mackay)
c0122000.txt   Bell+Braben Bits interview
c1000011.zip   Mkscript 1.1
c1061100.zip   8-bit Atari Elite demo
c1080400.txt   Bell Game World Navigator interview
c2030000.zip   DirectX Elite ship geometries (Neil Wallis)
c2060500.txt   Bell pczone interview
c2031200.htm   Braben Elite FAQ as webposted 12/03/02
c3030001.zip   Early design scans
c3042300.htm   Frontier Press Release 23/04/03 implying Braben sole creator of Elite
c3101800.htm   Guardian article 18/10/03

ian b - www.ibell.co.uk

================================
  Previous
================================

[--Copy of previous emails snipped--]




--------------------
Message-ID: <425BEE85.8010604@clara.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:51:33 +0100
From: Ian Bell
To: David Braben
Subject: Re: Pirated Copies of Elite
In-Reply-To: <005101c524e6$896ac100$a5fc3c40@corp.frontier.co.uk>


Resend of email of 21/03/05 to which no reply or acknowledgement received.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

David

 http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/archive/index.htm links to the files listed below.

 Please specify which files you are claiming copyright in and wish removed.

[--remainder snipped--]





--------------------
Message-ID: <01cc01c5440d$6e531750$010611ac@corp.frontier.co.uk>
From: "David Braben"
To: "Ian Bell"
Cc: "Guy Herbert" ,
   "David Walsh"
References: <02b901c519c5$27610a90$060611ac@corp.frontier.co.uk> <422C46DD.2010107@clara.co.uk> <005101c524e6$896ac100$a5fc3c40@corp.frontier.co.uk> <425BEE85.8010604@clara.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Pirated Copies of Elite
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:54:52 +0100


Ian,

As I have requested several times, the easiest thing would be to agree a
reciprocal shareware agreement. Until this is done, please remove the
copyright material forthwith.

Many of those files are in a format I cannot view, but I assume from your
descriptions, all the files you list (with exception of the news, legal
stuff, reviews and interviews) contain such copyright material, and if you
are not prepared to enter into a reciprocal license, must be removed.

I also notice that there is a part of your site, in the FAQ section, that
claims to identify different parts of Elite done by each of us. I'm sure you
know this to be wrong, so please remove this too.

David

PS In future, please use my frontier email account. I do not check the gmail
account on as regular basis.


----- Original Message -----
[ ---previous emails snipped--- ]




--------------------
From:Ian Bell
Date:   Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:54:45 +0100
To:David Braben
Message-ID:   <427258C5.3040305@clara.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <01cc01c5440d$6e531750$010611ac@corp.frontier.co.uk>


David

> I also notice that there is a part of your site, in the FAQ section,
> that claims to identify different parts of Elite done by each of us.
> I'm sure you know this to be wrong, so please remove this too.

You have accused me of knowingly webposting false material in an email
CC'd two third parties.

I assume you are refering to www.ibell.co.uk/elite/faq.htm#A3 which
states:
------------------
3. Who wrote what in the original Elite?

...............Elite Programing
Ian Bell...........................David Braben
Sun & planet plotting..............Ship plotting
3D movement, ship rotations    .......Trading screens
Stars/Dust Particles,Explosions....Equip ship screen
Hyperspace effect,Weapon Effects...Navigational charts
Solar system maintainance..........Galaxy generation
"Goat Soup" string................"Furry Felines" string
Scanner coding.....................Scanner concept
Graphics primitives................Sound effects
Enemy tactics, Docking, Missiles...Dial bars
Secret Missions,Trumbles   
-----------------

What do you dispute?

ian b - www.ibell.co.uk



---------
Previous
---------
[ ---previous emails snipped--- ]



--------------------

Message-ID: <021d01c5558e$79aa7b60$010611ac@corp.frontier.co.uk>
From: "David Braben"
To:
Cc: "Guy E.S. Herbert" ,
   "David Walsh"
References: <02b901c519c5$27610a90$060611ac@corp.frontier.co.uk> <422C46DD.2010107@clara.co.uk> <005101c524e6$896ac100$a5fc3c40@corp.frontier.co.uk> <425BEE85.8010604@clara.co.uk> <01cc01c5440d$6e531750$010611ac@corp.frontier.co.uk> <427258C5.3040305@clara.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Pirated Copies of Elite
Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 19:31:26 +0100


Ian,

>  > I also notice that there is a part of your site, in the FAQ section,
>  > that claims to identify different parts of Elite done by each of us.
>  > I'm sure you know this to be wrong, so please remove this too.
>
>   You have accused me of knowingly webposting false material in an email
> CC'd two third parties.

There is a danger of getting immensely petty here, and that was not my
intention. You imply there was a clear division between code sections we
each started; this is not true. We each extensively edited the whole code
base - this is why I said I'm sure you would remember this, and so must know
this to be wrong. To pick an example, you did originally write super fancy
enemy tactics that was almost unbeatable by the player, but in the end we
used a very simplistic 'slow and shoot' system as it was more fun - and this
was the result of both of us rewriting and tuning it extensively. You seem
to have made a list based on code started on the BBC Micro vs the Acorn
Atom - but forget that I also had a BBC Micro half way through the project,
and wrote some of the code sections you claim.

We both worked very hard on the project, and I think we both enjoyed it
immensely at the time. Some of the code for Elite was already in existence
before you started on the project (eg the 3D graphics, even some of the
ships), but I have never claimed disproportionate authorship as you appear
to be doing here by your choice of elements to list. It was a joint effort,
and to pretend it was not, twenty-odd years after the event seems very petty
to me. It belittles the great game we wrote together. For this reason I
would appreciate you removing this list. The same applies to the list of the
different ships. That is also wrong.

What would be great is for you to answer the original question of this
exasperating email thread - namely can we have an agreement to allow us both
to post the Elite code as discussed? Until this happens, please remove my
(C) material from your site forthwith.

Incidentally, the two people CC'd were David Walsh, also of Frontier, and
Guy Herbert, at the agents of Frontier and I. I'm surprised you did not
realise this, but I can assure you they will keep such correspondence
private and confidential, as will I.

David


----- Original Message -----

[ previous emails snipped ]





--------------------

Unsent



David


> You imply there was a clear division between code sections we
> each started; this is not true. We each extensively edited the whole code
> base

I recall clear seperation of tasks and allocations of responsibility.
Yes we debugged and bytesaved and tweaked eachothers code, but this does
not alter the primary authorships..


> I also had a BBC Micro half way through the project,
> and wrote some of the code sections you claim.

Which?

> Some of the code for Elite was already in existence   before you started
> on the project (eg the 3D graphics, even some of the ships),

"Ship plotting" is in your column.

> It was a joint effort,and to pretend it was not, twenty-odd years after the event

It was a joint effort yes, but with coding tasks divided and principly coded
to the best of my recollection as stated in my FAQ. If you have any /specific/
challenges then I will consider correcting it.


> For this reason I   would appreciate you removing this list.
> The same applies to the list of the different ships. That is also wrong.

I assume you are refering to www.ibell.co.uk/elite/faq.htm#A3 which
states:

---------------------
Elite Ship Design

Ian Bell: Adder, Anaconda, Asp, Boa, Boulder,Cobra I,
Cougar,Fer-de-Lance,Gecko, Krait, Moray,
Orbit shuttle, Tharglet, Transporter,
Worm,Dodecahedral Station

nDavid Braben: Asteroid, Cobra III, Constrictor, Mamba,
Missile,Python, Sidewinder, Thargoid,
Viper,Coriolis Station
---------------------

What specifically do you dispute?

ian b - www.ibell.co.uk





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